Toledo Priest Comments
I think that proper catechesis on the virtue of chaste celibacy, taking Jesus as our model, is the Spirit-filled way to address this issue. By participation in this survey I want to make it clear that I don not understand the Church to be a democracy. Instead, we must all humble ourselves before the Divine Plan of salvation. The glory of revelation can’t be dismissed with a vote of the people.
I think it is always good to have the opportunity for discussion. I would hope discussion would include perspectives on why the church requires celibacy and the benefits of it to ministry in the church -- personally I do not think the church should change its teaching.
BRAVO!!!
Unquestionably Yes. We are adults and we care about the church.
I personally feel that the optional celibacy is not the real issue here, although I do favor and open discussion on the topic. Here are my priorities: We need to zero in on “fixing the leadership personnel problem” in our Catholic Church by considering these 3 groups of people first:
-Priest who have left and could be available for full time-part time ministry…
-Permanent Deacons who have discovered a call priesthood…
-Capable religious and lay women who also have discerned a call to priestly ministry…
-Lastly – optional celibacy
Great idea - Thanks for doing this survey.
No – The Pope has spoken! “Causa Finita est.”
You are throwing your bucket down a dry well on the question of married priests. I vehemently oppose such an idea. Celibacy is the crown jewel of the catholic priesthood, distinguishing our commitment from all other “clergy”. The misdeeds of a very small few do not taint the marvelous record of the rest. We should not throw away what is truly precious in holy orders. If you believe a married priesthood will increase vocations, take a lesson from the Lutheran church of northwest Ohio. During my years as chaplain at green springs I had frequent discussions with the Lutheran minister on staff. He stated, without equivocation, that his synod had married clergy, female clergy, and was still substantially short of clergy needs. A question has frequently arisen in my mind: why all this lay concern regarding priestly celibacy? I have never seen a similar survey concerning unmarried doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc., all of who are used by the laity. Why the excitement about priests? LEAVE US ALONE!
It is a necessary move for all concerned of God’s people.
So much depends upon how you frame the question. The fact is that there are married priests in the Latin rite, primarily ex-ministers, Episcopal priests, etc. if we allow this we ought to consider qualified married men in the catholic church for discernment into presbyterate. The debate ought to be on the extent to which we open this up, because there are other considerations (e.g. impact on children, etc.) to take into account. This should also not be seen as a quick fix to the priest shortage issue or linked to the sexual abuse issue.
I have no problem with HONEST DISCUSSION if it is facilitated in a Christian manner. In a prayerful atmosphere of mutual respect and “non defensiveness” and “non-aggression” the Holy Spirit can guide us…So what is there to fear? The TRUTH is a beautiful thing! The TRUTH sets us free!! P.S. Thanks for caring.
I believe not only that we need a discussion. I believe we need optional celibacy for Diocesan priest- OR at least for those who are going to be ordained- allowed to marry before ordination.
I believe that your efforts could bear more fruit if you focused on strengthening the Church as it is, rather than exerting so much time and effort trying to change it.
Dear Friends, happy Valentine’s day, This is such a complex issue that we’re all wondering about it especially during this time of diminishing vocations to the celibate life. I heard that there is a study documenting that denominations allowing marriage with the hope of increasing vocations to the ministry were disappointed with the same lack of vocations that celibate groups are experiencing. This study should be found if indeed it does exist. If it is true, then the problem is not celibacy or marriage but of complex issues much more deep and culturally conditioned. We would always have to start with Jesus’ decision not to marry. And though Jesus is a divine person conditioned by his culture, he still chose not to marry. “The DaVinci Code” by Dan Brown is interesting, but also fiction. Peter seemed to have been married since Jesus healed his mother-in-law. We do not know if Peter’s wife died or agreed to some other arrangement for the sake of the Kingdom and ministries that required him to travel and risk martyrdom. We’ll find out about this in Heave. We’ll also find out if other Apostles were married. John seemed to have been unmarried as does Paul, and Paul did urge people to remain single for the sake of the kingdom: though his theology is possibly conditioned by his expectation of Jesus’ imminent return. There are many other issues and questions that have been discussed and written about by many people. These books and articles are available and should be taken into account in our search for answers. I suspect we would find ass many cons as pros after such a study and that would bring us back to the same uncertain place we find ourselves in right now. I suspect the Holy See’s request that we would not discuss this issue at the present time is conditioned not only by our traditional stance. I suspect the curia has appointed theologians to investigate this issue and are waiting for the results. I suspect some results have already come in that concluded after extensive study that the pros and cons seem equal at least and also still confusing and unresolved. It would be nice if God would send Gabriel down to resolve this issue as he did to inform Mary about the Incarnation and Nativity. This is not an option though, it seems. And we do not know that God is always revealing new aspects of his plans to collaborate with us on a daily basis. And so we no have to pray and study and appeal to our bishops and cardinals and to our Holy Father for continuing dialogue about this issue and all of the other issues that become more complex daily in this fast developing modern age. Some gender unions are being hotly debated now as you know, and the outcome of this issue could possibly also further complicate our search for conclusive answers to our catholic context and conditions and vocations. As you know, there are people on both sides of the same gender issue as there are many people on both sides of our issues too. Process through prayer, study, and dialogue seem imperative. There are no simple solutions. Would it be possible to study the lives of married priests of orthodox and other rites that allow married priests to see what such a study would offer as a solution to our search. Men who have left the priesthood to marry should also be consulted as well as nuns who have left to marry. Men and women who have become priests and nuns after the death of a spouse should also be consulted. Married men were ordained to the catholic priesthood when the Iron Curtain still forbad the Church to have seminaries, and some missionaries in remote villagers were allowed to marry I understand, for many reasons. These cases should be studied too. Could we receive permission to allow some Catholic priests to marry truly and sincerely for life as an experiment to study and see if such a decision would be good for any called to this life-style.
Celibacy offers great freedom to serve, provides a much needed counter cultural question mark to society’s thoughtless assumptions about happiness and wholeness, and fits other needs of the Church. However, many of the needs for Presbyterian ministry and leadership can - and perhaps ought – to be met by men (and women?) who are married as well as by those who are celibate. I can conceive of church that honors and esteems and utilizes celibate priests while at the same time calls married priests to service as well.
The church is not prepared economically to support a married clergy. They can barely support a celibate clergy as it is.
Why discuss it further? It should have been done 30 years ago to avoid our present predicament.
1) For secular clergy with family, means more expense for parish.
2) Wife has ___ do _____ work in the parish?
3) ________ of children are a public _______.
4) Married clergy is only looking for trouble!!!!
Although I am a believer in celibacy for myself, I think discussion should center around optional celibacy for those so inclined.
I think Eucharist is more important than mandatory celibacy. I think an expansion of the all ready presence of married clergy should be expanded to meet future needs.
Optional celibacy should be discussed, as well as bringing back priests who have left active priesthood, as well as women priests. No hope for the latter at this time.
Thanks for having the courage to take this step toward some open and honest dialogue. It makes so much sense to me.
Leave as is! The priesthood is certainly important enough to make that sacrifice.
No – Absolutely Not!
We actually have had more than enough discussion. CITI: Celibacy is the Issue. Make it optional. Now. Women priests: Yes. I would be happy to sign my name – in the future – as long as I am not just one of a small handful that will be hassled.
I do not like the wording of the question. To answer yes would end up being interpreted to favor married clergy when that is not what the question asked. I firmly believe that to serve Christ, as a priest demands total surrender of one’s life to Him. If you haven’t got “the right stuff”, forget it!
The reasons for celibacy for diocesan clergy by choice have been clear for 30 years. The church guided by self-destructive male controllers, is willing to sacrifice pastoral service, which requires priesthood and sacrament in our tradition, for the sake of rigidity. The Holy Spirit is guiding and the bishops refuse to change. It is a disaster.
Ancient tradition of the church: if you are married, you can be ordained. If you are ordained, you cannot be married. So….whatever results, this principle should be maintained.
I’ve already indicated my concern for need to discuss optional celibacy asking my brother retired priests to support the Milwaukee priests. My name is already public.
The Eucharist is the source and the center of our Christian spirit. We must save it.
Call to action group:
You may mean well but you are going contrary to the mind of the church. Chaste celibacy goes back to the beginning of the church. It was, as you well know, when the church began, that it was taken for granted in the culture that everyone got married. Many priests started living the celibate life because Christ praised it and St. Paul did the same, living as he did as a celibate. Celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom of God is a choice gift of God. Eventually under the influence of the Holy Spirit it became mandatory in the Roman rite. There is no shortage of priests when the people and priests are putting Christ first in their lives. When I was in the seminary I had to agree to go out West until the diocese of Toledo needed me – we had so many priests. You should realize that the Catechism of Catholic Church, the book of canon law and Vatican council ll of recent origin gave no hint that the rule of mandatory celibacy will be changed. There are exceptions, as you know, when Protestant ministers want to become catholic. These people are good people in search of the truth. Call to action, as a group, is dying out. It wants more than optional celibacy for priests. It fosters Holy Communion after divorce and attempted marriage, gay unions, contraception and other things that go contrary to the Scriptures and the clear teaching of the Catholic Church. I really think the work of the “Call to Action” is more guided by the devil than by the Holy Spirit. I do not accuse you dissenters of evil because some dissenting theologians and bishops have made you believe them more than you believe the Holy Father. Lack of priests is not caused by chaste celibacy but by a lack of faith. Go to an orthodox place to make a good retreat and you will change you ways when you find the truth and become free once more. Best wishes! May you change your ways soon. Note: why do you request that this be done without names? The devil works by night. Sin is committed more often in secret.
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